DATE: March 31, 2005
A special meeting of the Sauk County Law Enforcement Committee was held on Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 8:30 A.M., in the Community Room, D102A, 1300 Lange Court, Baraboo, Wisconsin.
The meeting was properly posted and all interested parties were notified.
Members Present: C. Montgomery, A. Carlson, J. Fordham, P. Tollaksen
Members Absent: R. Sinklair
Others Present: R. Stammen, M. Hafemann, W. Wenzel, R. Meister, F. Coller,
K. Beghin, L. Volz, B. Manning,
1. Call To Order and Certification of Open Meeting Law: The meeting was called to order and compliance with the Open Meeting Law was certified by Chair Charles Montgomery at 8:30 A.M.
2. Agenda: Motion by Carlson, seconded by Tollaksen, to adopt the agenda. Carried unanimously.
3 Discussion and Recommendation Regarding Jail Overcrowding in Rock, Dane and Other Wisconsin Counties: Chair Montgomery called the meeting to reopen the discussion of the opening of A Pod in the Sauk County Jail due to a recommendation from Supervisor Hartje and new information related to the opening of A Pod.
Sheriff Stammen recapped some of the history of the actions of the joined committees that met to consider the opening of A Pod. The committees meeting consisted of the Law Enforcement & Judiciary Committee, the Executive & Legislative Committee and the Finance Committee. Stammen said he was told two months ago that if he could get guarantees from other counties for placing 41 to 59 of their excess inmates in the Sauk County Jail the joined committees would present a resolution to the Sauk County Board of Supervisors to open A Pod. This recommendation was based upon a favorable financial breakdown prepared by Kerry Beghin which factored in the costs of the initial hiring and opening and the potential revenues past the "break even" point. Stammen related that he had come back to the committee with firm commitments and Sheriff Gary Hamblin from Dane County had also attended the meeting to present his prospective needs for housing Dane County inmates in Sauk County. The meeting with Sheriff Hamblin did not go well and since that time Stammen has had no contact with him regarding whether or not Dane County would be interested in renting beds should the opening of A be revisited and come to fruition. Stammen said even though he had secured the commitments for out-of-county housing the committees had not taken action and the idea was dropped.
Rock County has recently expressed interest in housing inmates in Sauk County and their crowding situation is critical. Hafemann said they're eager for a commitment and would like to begin moving more inmates as soon as possible. He's taking as many as he can for them right now but doesn't have nearly enough space to house all of the inmates they need to move.
Some committee members expressed concern that even if Sauk County were to open A Pod and took prisoners from adjacent counties, there might come a time when other counties further north would offer lower daily fees that would result in the counties moving their inmates where they could get a better price. Hafemann said Rock could get a lesser daily rate right now in Shawano County but they want to have their inmates here. The transportation of inmates is a major concern and very few counties have any transporters other than sworn deputies who are paid overtime rates to do transports. Neither Sheriff Stammen nor Captain Hafemann thought this would be an issue, but Stammen agreed that anything can happen.
There was also discussion on what the daily rate should be if Sauk County were to open A Pod and begin housing out-of-county inmates. Both Stammen and Hafemann said the daily rate should be fair and within reason based on the going rate around the state. Stammen pointed out that when Sauk County was housing inmates in other counties no one gouged us on the daily rate. In response to concerns about possible damage to the facility by out-of-county inmates, he replied that if inmates from other counties damage anything in the facility the other county would be charged for the repairs. Controller Kerry Beghin told the committee that she had based her projected costs of opening A Pod on every known factor that could be separated out. The heat and lights are on in A Pod right now and no significant increase is expected for either of those. She couldn't give an exact projection of the increase in water and sewer usage since there's no break down presently being done based on cell pods. The facility pays one combined fee for water and sewer for the entire building.
Sheriff Stammen said part of the breakdown in plans to open A Pod had come about because of figures that were offered at committee meetings related to the extremely high number of prisoners in Wisconsin as compared to Minnesota. He said he had assigned Captain Hafemann the task of getting complete figures and costs to try to get at the truth of the matter. Hafemann and Fred Coller presented the committee with a up-to-date comparison based on the most recently available figures.
Minnesota has adopted a policy favoring probation and parole instead of incarceration. This has resulted in fewer inmates in prisons but an extremely high number of people on probation and parole. The crime rate in Minnesota is higher because the opportunity to reoffend is greater. The 2002 crime rates in Wisconsin and Minnesota, the most recent figures available, show Wisconsin with 3,253 crimes per 100,000 population. In Minnesota the rate is 3,535 per 100,000 population, an increase of 282 more crimes committed for every 100,000 people. When probationers reoffend in Minnesota they're not sent to prison after their probation is revoked, but they're returned to the county jail in the county where their original offense occurred. This absolves the state from much of an increase in the state prison population but it has forced 36 of Minnesota's 87 counties to be actively involved in building jails. In Wisconsin there are only five counties currently involved in expansion or construction of county jails.
As of this date Wisconsin has 21,842 people in state prisons as opposed to Minnesota which has 8,333, a difference of 13,509. However, Wisconsin has 72,000 adults on probation while Minnesota has 115,600, a difference of 43,600 persons. A spokesman for the Minnesota Counties Association stated that the corrections systems in Minnesota and Wisconsin are essentially not comparable "because the State Legislature, to cut their budget, shifted the burden of P&P to the counties." The facts and figures completely negate the arguments that have been used to derail the discussion of opening A Pod.
Stammen reported that there were 61 out-of-county inmates being housed in the Sauk County Jail as of today and every bed in the facility has been filled to accommodate Rock County and Dane County in alleviating their overcrowding. He said he has been asked by Rock County to make a commitment to house inmates from their overflowing facilities. The committee was informed that Rock County, Dane County, Iowa County and Wood County are all suffering overcrowding and none of the counties has a building program on the table. He asked if Sauk County wanted a revenue flow from out-of-county housing.
County Board Chair Wenzel said that based upon some quick figures the possibility existed to generate about 1.5 to 2 million dollars in revenues over the next two years, depending of when the out-of-county housing could begin. Sheriff Stammen said he thought if the go ahead were received it would be August 1, 2005, before A Pod would be ready to open. Wenzel said he didn't want to wait to consider the opening until the budget process and believed it should be undertaken now.
Committee person Fordham said that if the committee did decide to recommend opening A Pod she thought the proposal should be to open the entire Pod, not just half of it. She asked the other committee persons if they would agree to that. Montgomery said he wanted to be sure he had the support of the entire committee to reestablish negotiations about the opening. He stated that if the committee members were divided in their intent there was no purpose in asking for a reconvening of the joined committees to discuss it.
Motion by Carlson, seconded by Tollaksen, to call for a meeting to reconvene the joined Law Enforcement & Judiciary Committee, the Finance Committee and the Executive & Legislative Committee to reopen the issue of opening all of A Pod. Motion carried unanimously.
The joined meeting of those three committees was set for Thursday, April 14, 2005, at 9:30 AM at a location to be determined. Kerry Beghin, Sauk County Controller, will prepare the agenda and find a room for the meeting.
4. Adjourn To Date Specified: Motion by Montgomery, seconded by Tollaksen, to adjourn the meeting.
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Joan Fordham, Secretary