DATE: March 22, 2005
Committee Members Present: Wiese, Gaalswyk, Sprecher, and Ashford.
Others Present: Lance Gurney, Mary White, Ted Brenson, Lowell Haugen, Kelly Felton, Dave Tremble, Steve Pate, and others.
Chairman Wiese called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m. and staff certified the meeting had been properly posted.
Motion by Gaalswyck, seconded by Ashford to adopt the amended agenda as presented. Motion carried 4-0, Lehman was not in attendance.
Motion by Gaalswyck, seconded Sprecher to approve the minutes of the March 8, 2005 Committee meeting. Motion carried 4-0 .
The Committee and Department received numerous communications and phone calls regarding the Geffert project. These would be handled during the public hearing.
Business Items - none.
Mr. Ted Brenson, County Cartographer, addressed the Committee. Kelly Felton, Land Records Officer, was also in attendance. Mr. Brenson stated that the Department of Administration had copies of the resolution required to transfer this authority. Ms. Felton would be responsible for land records reports to the Committee. Mr. Brenson stated that he had been working with Tim Stieve on wireless grants and the Corporation Counsel was reviewing the contracts needed regarding the photography project. Mr. Brenson did not have any vouchers for approval.
Mr. Brent Bailey, Register of Deeds, appeared next. He stated that if business continues as it was this would be the busiest year on record for his department. His staff was recording between 160 and 170 documents a day. Online records were briefly discussed. Mr. Bailey then presented his voucher list. Motion by Ashford, seconded by Gaalswyck to approve vouchers. Motion carried 4-0.
The County Surveyor had nothing to report.
Mr. Gurney supplied the Committee with copies of letters regarding the Geffert property which had not been included in their meeting packets.
Mr. Gurney briefly reviewed the status of proposed City of Baraboo annexation.
Mr. David Tremble, Land Preservation Specialist, then appeared regarding the purchase of development rights from Don Adams in the Town of Westfield. The Committee had approved this purchase at the March 8, 2005 meeting. The County Board reviewed the proposal and sent it back to the Committee for further discussion. The issue was the condition and management of the property and what that meant regarding future willingness to deal in a straight forward manner to uphold the conservation easement. Mr. Tremble had contacted the Land Conservation Department for an estimate of pasture requirements for a herd of bison. The number of animals that could be pastured on the property was discussed. Mr. Tremble stated that Mr. Adams would be willing to reduce the size of the herd, but had not been able to do so. Mr. Gaalswyck was concerned that with limited funds left, other property may not be protected. The Nature Conservancy was interested but only if the development rights were purchased. If the Nature Conservancy pulled out of the deal the property would be sold. The offers had to be accepted prior to May 1st. Mr. Wiese stated he felt the Nature Conservancy could purchase the entire parcel. Mr. Tremble requested the Committee to look beyond the current owner and to be aware that there were time constraints involved. If the Committee didn't support the purchase there was no reason to take it back to the County Board. Motion by Ashford, seconded by Sprecher to return the purchase back to the County Board for action. Motion carried, 5-0.
Chairman Wiese called the public hearing to order at 9:45 A.M. He explained the order of the hearing and the Committee members introduced themselves. Mr. Wiese requested the speakers limit themselves to three minutes.
The petition being heard was for approval of a rezone from an Resource Conservancy 35 district to a Recreational-Commercial zoning district for the purpose of establishing a campground to be developed in four phases with a total build-out of 180-200 campsites with related accessories. The request is being made by Charles and Caroline Geffert, S7142 Orchard Road, North Freedom, WI 53951 and the parcel of land affected by the rezone is located in Section 33, T11N, R5E in the Town of Freedom, Sauk County, Wisconsin.
Mr. Lance Gurney, Planning and Zoning Director, appeared and gave a staff report and brief overview of the project. He explained that if the rezoning was approved, the petitioner would need to get a special exception permit from the Board of Adjustment. With that the applicant would need to define other uses more specifically.
The Town of Freedom approved the campground concept at their December meeting.
Mr. Gaalswyck stated that he had received several phone calls on this matter and he was wondering if any other zoning district would cover just tent camping. Mr. Gurney stated that the approval process would be the same.
Mr. Charles Geffert, property owner, appeared. He explained that originally he did not intend to rezone the entire parcel. To just rezone several small areas would be considered spot zoning so he decided to rezone the entire parcel after conferring with the Planning and Zoning Department. He stated that showers, dumping stations, etc. were regulated by the state and of course would be done to fit codes. Dumpsters would be located near the exit to control litter on the roadway. Trails that were used as horse trails could also be used by emergency vehicles if necessary. He stated that "rustic roads" were for leisure use by bikers and campers because there were public roadways. The State has been promoting the use of these roads. He briefly reviewed erosion and slopes. Mr. Gaalswyck asked if Mr. Geffert had considered applying for the purchase of development rights program. Mr. Geffert indicated that his selling price was not within the range of the Baraboo Range Protection program.
Mr. Jim Wright of Wright Concepts Group appeared in favor. Mr. Wright was a landscape architect and has spent considerable time in environmental research. Mr. Wright had done the concept plan for the campground. He stated that the campground was a compatible and supportive enterprise if done properly. Mr. Geffert had placed a lot of limitations on how the campground was to be done so as to protect the natural beauty of the area. He had limited tree cutting. Larger Rvs would not be feasible due to natural constraints.
Mr. Steve Higley of Carlson Surveying appeared next. He had been hired by Mr. Geffert to do the surveying needed. He explained that Mr. Geffert originally wanted to rezone only 38 acres. This would be considered spot zoning. That is why the petitioner was now asking to rezone 78 acres. He addressed the problem of slopes. He stated that the entrance was steep, but the property leveled off after that. He did not think that run off would be a problem. He also stated that Mr. Geffert was concerned about the natural beauty of his property. Mr. Higley asked where else people would want to camp if not in a beautiful natural area. The challenge was to keep the area naturally beautiful and Mr. Geffert was well aware of the challenges.
Ms. Audrey Parker, representing the Glacial Area Conservancy Federation, appeared in favor. She stated that they supported the petition. She stated that this was a man's dream and the people that object should compensate Mr. Geffert for his loss. She considered this a wonderful spot for a campground.
Mr. Harold Dallmann, Town of Freedom Chair, appeared in favor. He stated that Mr. Geffert approached the Town of Freedom Board on December 8, 2004. He said that Mr. Geffert was well aware of what approvals he would need to enter into this project. The Town Board supported Mr. Geffert's efforts.
Mr. Gaalswyck asked if the Town Board had acted on the rezoning. Mr. Dallmann stated not specifically, but the Board knew that the zoning would need to be changed and they gave their permission to proceed with the project. There was no public input at this meeting and there was no opposition on the part of the Town Board.
Mr. Paul Endres then appeared in favor. He stated that he supported the project and he considered it a family campground and that the natural area would be protected.
Mr. Bill Weitzel from the Town of Greenfield then appeared. He said this was a way to preserve several acres in the bluff and not have a burden on the taxpayers. He said that the owner had only two other choices, one to cut the trees or plant row crops. He stated the Mr. Geffert kept his property clean and neat and would keep the campground that way also. He felt that all kinds of vehicles use gravel roads, so road repairs did not enter into the picture. He was sure that this project could be completed within the parameters of being a good steward of the land.
Mr. Jamie Brandt, Team Engineering, registered in favor but did not wish to speak.
Mr. Harold Kruse then appeared. He stated that he holds no personal grudge against the family. He thought they were good people trying to protect their land, but the size and location was not right. He stated that the goal of conservation projects is to provide a safe habitat for birds, animals and plants in an undisturbed environment. He urged the Committee to deny the request.
Mr. Dick Dana representing the Baraboo Hills Conservation Alliance appeared next. Camping is not like it was years ago. People have things that make noise, such as large motor homes, atvs, TVs , radios, etc. RV parks do not belong in rural areas and as concerned citizens he urged the Committee to reject this proposal.
Mr. Lehman stated that the Committee could not put limitations on the type of campgrounds. The Board of Adjustment could do that. He asked if the Baraboo Hills Conservation Alliance would consider the use if it were for a rustic campground. Mr. Dana state the Alliance would look at the proposal differently.
Ms. Janet Fitzgerald-Molitor appeared next. She stated that the traffic and noise would increase and a rustic road was not meant to be used in that manner.
Ms. Patsy Boettcher then appeared in opposition. She was concerned about spot zoning. She felt the rustic road could not handle the increase in traffic and the possibility of vehicles spreading invasive plants. She said that two other campgrounds in the Baraboo Hills had failed in the area. Mr. Lehman asked how the campgrounds had failed. She thought it was not enough use.
Ms. Louise Boettcher-Troxel appeared in opposition. She said the campground was not encouraging tent camping, but making arrangements for RV, dumping stations, dumpsters, etc. This area was the headwaters of Seeley Creek. She was also concerned about opening the canopy and erosion. She was in favor of enjoying the beauty of nature but in a gentle way.
Ms. Jane Appleyard appeared and explained that the rustic road designation could be withdrawn by the state for over-development.
Ms. Jane Stedman doesn't think that Geffert wants to destroy his property. Her major concern was the increased traffic. RV parks are not pretty places.
Mr. Gaalswyck asked if campgrounds should be limited to along major highways.
Ms. Jane Dana stated that this project was like dropping a town in the middle of a forest.
Mr. David Sullivan registered in opposition but did not wish to speak.
Ms. Jill Luce spoke in opposition.
Mr. Pat McCarthy appeared and stated that the town was engaged in developing a growth plan. He didn't feel that a development should be approved at this time that could impact the town in social and natural character for years to come. Should the town put a moratorium on development until the plan was completed was discussed.
Tricia Denker appeared next and stated she had no problems with the owners but there was a lot of emotion involved in this subject. The roads in the area are very fragile and there were plenty of other campgrounds around.
Mr. Gaalswyck asked why these people were not at the town board meeting when this subject was discussed. Mr. Gaalswyck was told that the majority of Freedom property owners were not aware that this was going to be discussed.
Mr. David Gibbs appeared in opposition. He stated that spot zoning was bad and felt this type of development should be closer to the Village of North Freedom. The posting of public notices by the township was discussed.
Mr. Lowell Boettcher appeared and stated the road is very narrow and was worried about emergency vehicles.
Mr. Joe Denker stated that he has respect for the land and hills and the local community was not ready for a project like this.
Mr. Richard Denker was concerned about campfires and the headwaters of Seeley Creek with large amounts of sewage being produced. He was also concerned about oil and gas waste, as well as noise, from the large number of vehicles.
Ms. Sue Prosser stated that she had a bad experience in regards to a quarry near her home and stated that these people were all taxpayers and their rights needed protection also.
Mr. Jim Barnard stated that he was an adjoining property owner. He was concerned about run off of contaminants like oil and gas. There is not a fence between his property and the Geffert property and he was also concerned about dirt bikes and trespassing. He urged the Committee to reject the proposal.
Mr. Lehman asked if Mr. Barnard knew that he was partially responsible to maintain line fences.
Mr. Martin Hines said that he had mixed emotions. Mr. Geffert did not talk to the neighbors regarding this proposal before going to the Town Board.
Ms. Linda Hanfield appeared and stated that she was on the Town of Honey Creek Land Use Commission. She stated that the Hills needed to be protected and were not the right place for a campground. This use was also not consistent with the National Natural Landmark Program. She was also concerned that some of these campers could become permanent campers.
Mr. Floyd Mason stated that this type of development should be done under the guidance of a smart growth plan.
Ms. Carol Thiel appeared and stated that she was more opposed to an RV park than just a campground. She also stated that she felt many taxpayers had become complacent about town board meetings.
Mr. Hiroshi Kanno was concerned about the high incidence of crime due to area visitors and the added pressure on fire and police.
Ms. Laura Olah's concern was about water quantity, quality and possible forest fragmentation. She stated that large volumes of water would be needed. She was unable to provide a detailed comment but encouraged disapproval due to lack of details.
Ms. Arlene Kanno stated that we are only caretakers of the land. Her concern was invasive plant species such as the garlic mustard.
Nancy Breaker representing The Nature Conservancy, then spoke. The Conservancy was concerned that the campground would negatively effect the property they own adjoining Mr. Geffert's land.
Sarah Lampman registered in opposition.
James Lampman stated that this was not a small enterprise and was worried about not preserving the scenic beauty of the area. He also stated that the town did not post the meeting notices where they could be easily seen.
Mr. Lawrence Phelps, an adjourning property owner, appeared in opposition. He stated that there was no fences between his property and Mr. Geffert's and he was concerned about wood collectors, rare flowers, litter and what problems hunting could cause. He was afraid that the neighbors would suffer by this development.
Ms. Janet Phelps appeared and agreed with her husband. She stated that even if fences were put up there would still be a trespassing problem. Garlic mustard was also a concern.
Ms. Mary Wealti and her husband owned 40 acres in the area. Trespassing during hunting season and littering were her two concerns.
Mr. Russell Wealti appeared in opposition. Mr. Wealti was concerned about the road because it rough and the trees formed a canopy over the road which would limit the size of vehicles unless the road was widened. He did not want horse riders on his property because he thought he could be liable if an accident happened.
Ms. Deanna Schara appeared in opposition. She owned property across the road from Mr. Geffert. She stated that she had a lot of respect for Mr. Geffert but she was concerned about the number of people, noise and traffic.
Ms. Mary Feine then appeared. She stated the area now allows for privacy and is very quiet. If this project is allowed both of those things would be taken away.
Mr. Kenneth Schara was concerned about trash, four wheelers, dirt bikes, traffic, trespassers and fire protection.
Mr. Jamie Brandt from Team Engineering spoke in favor. He stated that the canopy would not be broken and there would be a minimum disturbance of the land. He also addressed erosion and the impact to streams.
Ms. Erin Cline, representing Mr. John Kenney, appeared as interest may appear. They were concerned with trespassing and they didn't feel that fire protection was adequate.
Mr. Gerret Denker appeared and stated that he swims in Seeley Creek and was concerned about campers dumping in the stream. He also didn't think that the road could handle increased traffic.
Mr. Dean Steinhorst registered as interest may appear but did not wish to speak.
Ms. Verla Klingenmeyer registered as interest may appear but did not wish to speak.
Mr. Jeff Thieding registered as interest may appear. He felt that Mr. Geffert planned to operate the campground with excellent land stewardship in mind. He stated that the soil and grade disturbance would be minimal and mature trees would be left. He felt that what Mr. Geffert was planning was not the worst thing that could be done with the land. Mr. Geffert could propose to clear cut the property.
Mr. David Seamans appeared in favor. He is on the Town Board and is also Mr. Geffert's son-in-law. He said that Mr. Geffert should be allowed to use his property as he sees fit. This project would help him pay off his property taxes. The state would require erosion and run off plans and Mr. Geffert would do the best job that he could.
Mr. Geffert then reappeared. He stated that the campground could be used as a sort of community watch program. Mr. Sprecher asked if the lot lines would be clearly marked to prevent trespassing. He also wondered about hunters on adjoining property.
Mr. Dick Dana appeared and stated that this project was not for the good of the community and many citizens were against it.
Mr. Bill Weitzel appeared in favor and indicated he had no financial gain from the project.
Mr. Russell Wealti appeared again. He stated that there was a problem with a property line fence.
Mr. Lance Gurney then appeared. He explained the choices that the Committee had. The Committee could postpone the request and send it back to the town for official action, they could move to deny the request or modify and approve or approve it. There was further discussion on the decision and choices available to the Committee. He said that the adjoining property owners do have a say on rezoning matters. Town moratoriums and town decisions were discussed. Mr. Gurney stated that the town had not officially approved the rezoning.
Seeing no one else wished to speak the Chair closed the public portion of the hearing at 1:05 P.M.
Motion by Ashford, seconded by Gaalswyck to deny the petition due to the numerous issues and potential conflict. Mr. Sprecher stated that he would not vote to deny the request as he felt it should be sent to the town. Motion carried 3-1, with Sprecher in opposition.
The Committee then reviewed the vouchers for the Planning and Zoning Office. Motion by Ashford, seconded by Sprecher to approve the vouchers in the amount of $3,099.23. Motion carried 4-0.
Motion by Ashford, seconded by Wiese to adjourn. Motion carried 4-0.
Respectfully submitted,
Judy Ashford, Secretary